Our guest today is an actor, a narrator, a coach. She's an entrepreneur. She is the founder of the great audio book adventure, which is a leading program to hook up audio book narrators and build their career with audio book publishers. We've been chatting offline for several months and I'm so glad we can finally have Elise Arsenault on the podcast. Elise, thanks so much for making time for us today. Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Paul. Good to be here. my pleasure. You and I are cut from the same cloth. We wear a lot of hats. You're an actor, narrator, entrepreneur, coach, creator. How did all this get rolling for you? I know you're classically trained, but what was the spark that sort of set the whole thing off? Yeah, well, I think I've always been someone that does a lot of things. Starting from a young age, I always had this entrepreneurial streak. Like around age 10 or 11, I was reading the Babysitter's Club books and I started my own babysitting business, like inspired by that. oh I already, I had like a bunch of clients in my teen years. So that was probably my first business. But then I was always an actor and I am a child of a band director and singer. So I played multiple instruments growing up. also sang, I was class president in high school. So I just always was very interested in doing lots of things. So I think as a professional, as I learn new things, whenever I learn something new and I like it, I'm like, I want to share this with other people. So. For a time I was performing in theater and doing a couple productions of Avenue Q and I learned puppetry and then I became a puppet coach. So when I grew into voiceover, which was about maybe 11 or 12 years ago is when I started seriously pursuing voiceover, when I found audio book narration and I was like, I don't think enough people know about this. It just became clear like, okay, I wanna just teach a lot of people how to do this as well. So I assume I will continue to do that in my life, learn new things, and do my best to share it with others in a way that feels right to me. I mentioned you're classically trained. wasn't kidding around. You trained at the British American Drama Academy at Oxford, which sounds incredibly sophisticated. it very much was. How does that classical training inform what you do uh as an audiobook narrator and as an actor? Absolutely. I think as an audiobook narrator, I use it every day. Like right now I'm in the middle of recording a fantasy audiobook series for podium audio. And the amount of story that I'm telling in this book, that's probably going to be about 17 and a half finished hours. It just requires skill to break down a script and make choices and commit to characters over a long epic period, right? um So for me, it's fun. And I think it's fun because I get to use that training. So I'm grateful for all the work that I've done around script analysis, accents, dialects, character creation. And then also through that, I have a lot of training in improvisation. And I think that deeply supports my self-trust. to just go with it because I think where we can hold ourselves back, especially in long form voiceover is this need to make it sound perfect or polished. And in fact, that's not our job. Our job is to be human and to let the feelings come out. And that can only happen if we trust ourselves enough to just be and do. It's funny, I say the same exact thing about short form. I think it's equally true. You've done a whole bunch of stuff. You're rangey, you've done a bunch of different genres, you've done commercials, you've done games, you've over 140, 160 audio books, you've got eight in the queue now, you just told me before we went on camera. Of all of the stuff that you've done, what feels most, I hate to overuse the term, but authentically you? Oh, okay. I'm going to say two things. I'll share two specific projects because I think this is the range of what I most love to do. um One book that I did was uh the definitive biography of Madonna. And it was a 41 finished hour epic biography by Mary Gabriel, who's an investigative journalist. And Mary Gabriel decided to just, she does these epics. biographies. And once she got going on Madonna, she just uncovered more and more. And this book is like a very much a social history of the 60s to 2020. And so I loved learning and I loved learning from the journey of this epic artist from our time, this woman who really has rubbed people. the wrong way at times and has really inspired many people and was like a big ally during the AIDS epidemic. So there's just so many things that that book taught me about leadership and being brave as an artist. And then I also got to learn so much about history. So I loved that book and it was so, so cool to just sink my teeth into something and learn along the way. So I think I really love learning through my projects as well. And so this, was one. And then the second project, I'm going to, I actually have this in paperback right here. And it's called the troubled girls of Dragon Mirror Academy. It's a middle grade book. So it's for ages eight through 12, like Harry Potter ish uh age group kind of thing. And it's about this world where girls have um magic, but they don't know. So they're kind of sent to this place and I think in both of these cases, I love stories that help. I grew up one of five kids and I'm the only girl in my family. So I think whenever there's a character that's been uttered or just this streak of feminism coming in, I always can relate to that. it just feels fun and easy for me to do and also ends up being healing in a way as well. Good lord, four brothers, you had to fight for elbow room at the dinner table, imagine. I think I bring that experience to everything I do. You've done a mess of audiobooks. assume, well, I don't want to assume. A, is that your primary genre anymore? I would imagine because of the global accurate would be, but I want to double check that. And secondly, uh if that's true, how did the audiobook thing really start to take off for you? How did you know that you really wanted to be a prolific audio audiobook narrator? my gosh, I actually didn't know that. It's so funny. It kind of happened. And then now intentionally I'm, I really embrace it now because I think something that I teach my students and clients is that the industry lets you know where they, where, where they see you. And I think there can be a level of sharing what we want to do, but also it's really important that we notice what is working and we ride that wave. So I think for me, started, I had done a little bit of voiceover back in college, but I think when I got more serious about it 12 years ago, I was pursuing commercial work and audio books at the same time. And with audio books, because of a referral and audio book narrators in the area where I live in New England, there was a way in. once I what got into that uh first publisher I worked with, Tantor Audio, it just led to job after job. So basically every time I would finish a book, I would check in, we would go in studio there in old Sabrett, Connecticut. And I would be like, thank you so much for that. I just finished. I wanted to let you know my next availability is, you know, this week, next month, if you have anything for me. So it was always, I would always, I had already done a lot of marketing work and business training, but it was just like, that was a great project. Thanks for having me. And if you like my work, here's my next availability. And it turned into book after book. And that specific client I've done over half of my audio books with to this day. So I think, um, I could have said, no, I just want to do theater or no, I just want to do on camera work or no, I just want to do big commercial voiceover. But if I did that, I would energetically be pushing myself off to like, what has really been this beautiful flow of work over the years that I've been able to do other things as well. But it just feels like this beautiful flow that came my way that I just, I didn't intend for it to happen. It's just like really beautiful how it opened up. Just late last year, I was at the Nava Gala in Los Angeles, and that's the last opportunity I've had to really talk to a lot of voice talent in the same room at the same time. And the general consensus was that, yes, things are slow. I didn't talk to a lot of audiobook narrators that evening. You're in that space in a way that I am not. Is that something that you're seeing? Is there a slowing down? Are audiobooks still booming? And if so, Either way, what would you tell a new audiobook narrator that maybe has done short form or theater or any of the other things that are voiceover adjacent that wants to pivot into audiobooks? Great question. um Yes, in my opinion, audiobooks are still booming. think there's a lot of something I noticed sometimes in the audiobook narration space is sometimes I hear from folks I've heard on social media, people like really trying to discourage people from going into audiobook narration. I think it's like one of those things where I don't know if you've experienced this before, Paul, but I think like people used to have a lot of questions about voiceover and feel like it's really closed shop. So I think audiobook narration was that way for a long time and there were probably just a few hundred people doing all the jobs. And I think that really opened up over the past several years and we have ways to move in and there's less gatekeeping. So I think folks who want the gatekeep, the gates to stay up will say, oh, it's not going well, but I will tell you. um The flow of work that I've seen for myself and with my clients has not slowed down. Like anything else, there are ebbs and flows. So it might be that you have several projects one month and maybe not as much the next. Every month might look different, which is why we need to learn systems for uh cash flow management and make sure you're putting away money for taxes and all of that, because it is going to look different from month to month. But I spoke with a casting director a few months ago on an interview that I was interviewing him. And he was telling me, I think when tech companies and larger companies and conglomerates come together and they purchase an audio book company, everyone fears that something is going to happen and that work will go away. But what he's found, especially working with this specific company that's been around for 40 years now, is that every time it's purchased, They hold their breath. And then the people who've purchased it realize like, whoa, audiobooks are so vital and viable and just listeners are more and more voracious. more people are listening to audiobooks than ever before. And also, I gave a TEDx talk earlier this year about the topic of AI. And with virtual voices coming in, there's a lot of fear. especially with how many virtual voice audiobooks were put out on Audible earlier this year and in the past couple years. But the truth is, the longer form a voiceover is, the more easy it is to tell that it's not a human. And so I really don't see that changing. So if you're like afraid of in general, okay, but if you, I want you to know that there's plenty of work. in the audiobook industry. It's just a matter of understanding how to build relationships with publishers and how to get your marketing materials together. And I think being a good human actor. Absolutely. Number one. Absolutely. Yeah, you're so right. Thank you for saying that, Paul, because I guess I just like assume that but you're right. That is probably the most important thing because I hear em sometimes people will come to me and they've been listening to audiobooks for a while and they're trying to mimic a sound that they've heard and it just ends up sounding AI. Like, you know, you're nodding your head. You get it. It's like... No, like breathing and having feelings is the thing that makes us human. that is where the work begins, is the acting work. then I think next steps from there, ah I'll share more about it later, but the great audiobook adventure is a course that I've been running that we created back in 2019. And it's helped over a thousand actors break into audiobooks, working with major publishers, because all my work is directly with pub. publishers, except for one book. I did one book independently with an author, but that was still through her publisher. audio, the publisher work, I believe, I mean, I see it all the time is the best paying audiobook work. So that's why I want you to build relationships directly with publishers. And I also want to say for folks who are union actors, audiobook narration is the most consistent way that union actors are consistently reaching ah SAG-AFTRA health insurance and pension. So for long-term working actor sustainability, to me it just feels obvious to explore this if you haven't yet. I agree. You mentioned AI. We talked about acting. Let's talk about that in the audition context. an audiobook coach, as an audiobook narrator, what separates the audiobook auditions, that book, from the ones that don't? Absolutely. In my experience, and I will say, I want to just preface it with what's also really cool about audiobook work is I rarely audition anymore. There's so much of my work that comes from direct bookings because of the ongoing work. But when it comes to an audition, the auditions that are booking are the ones that are fully lived in. So as you said before, that are just human experience. So the first thing that you can do is touch base with all five senses or however many senses you have access to. That is the first thing you want to do is like, what world am I in? If it's thriller, that's going to be different than rom-com is going to be different than fantasy is going to be different than a nonfiction self-help book. So what is the world that you're living in? Sensorily get yourself there. What does it feel like, taste like, sound like, all of the different things? Put yourself there, have the experience of being there, and then you're sharing that experience with us. So who is the listener? Who are you talking to? Who did the author intend this book for? And why would someone be picking up that audio book? Are they trying to escape in fantasy? Are they trying to learn something in a business book? Whatever it is. the more specific you can get to your own experience and the more specific you can get with who you're talking to, the more human experience it's going to be. Specificity counts, folks. I'll say it again for the folks in the back. The more specific you can get, the better your performance is going to be. I want to switch gears for a minute and talk about the global actor. For those who have not heard of the global actor, first, what is it? And secondly, how did you get the idea? What was the spark? What was the origin story for the global actor? Yeah, thank you. So the Global Actor is my coaching company and it encompasses the great audiobook adventure, which is a comprehensive course to help you break into working with publishers. And it's really the A to Z. So if you know nothing about audiobooks, you can dive right in. Or if you have audiobooks under your belts and you want to work more often with publishers, it's a great way into that as well. uh Within the Global Actor, we also have a thriving community where we do events like retreats. We uh have the Global Actor podcast, which is motivational and really practical business advice for both actors and multi-hyphenate creatives, because I am a multi-hyphenate creative who does lots of things. I tend to work... Along with audiobook narrators, I tend to work with actors who are interested in doing other things. So many of my clients might have other businesses that they run or they might be writers or they just feel, or they're just neurodivergent in a way. I have ADHD. So as I've learned more about that for myself, the more I've realized, I am someone that tends to connect well with folks who are also neurodivergent. And the global actor came about back in 2016 when I was embracing not living in a major market. So I came up in Washington, D.C. I grew up in New England, but I went to school in D.C. at George Mason University, Northern Virginia. And then I moved to New York shortly after doing a theater tour and working in D.C. for a while. And I had that dream that a lot of actors have about making it in New York. or making it in LA. And I really tried it and it didn't work for me in the way that I thought it would. And it really did not feel aligned in my body. I can say that now because I have so much more awareness of like nervous system healing and all that. But at the time I was just like so stressed, so worried, and at the same time wanted it so badly. So still was trying so hard to make, uh you know, whatever that term is about making something fit, that's not a fit. But I didn't hear anyone in the industry saying it was okay to not live in New York or LA and make it work. So when I moved back home to Rhode Island, which is where I'm from, um I dove into the training that was accessible to me there. that I trained, I basically created my own MFA program with folks who used to be teachers at the Brown uh Trinity Rep MFA program. So I spent some time studying voice specifically with Tom Jones from there and Catherine Jennings was my singing teacher. And I used that home base of Rhode Island to grow and expand and bloom in my acting career to work throughout New England, voiceover work in New York. Then from there I trained at Oxford and really was having... oh thriving acting career in regional theater and then uh in voiceover. And I didn't, and I still didn't hear anybody saying it was okay to do it that way. So for me, the global actor, the mission is for you to know as an actor, as a voiceover talent, that you can live where you want anywhere in the world. And then you can also work when you want. My schedule today is so flexible. But we do need to learn how to be okay with that. We do need to learn the systems to make that happen. So that's overall where this came from. And what surprises me today and is so fun for me to see today is that so many of my clients who thrive not only live in these smaller markets, but the great audiobook adventure has helped people who live in LA and New York finally make a living as an actor in these places too. So sometimes it takes an outside perspective to get to the point to just overcome a lot of limiting beliefs. One of the things that I've noticed too is that, uh you know, multi-hyphenate creatives, famously voice actors, we are sort of notorious for flying by the seat of our pants and running our careers sort of, you know, just kind of winging the whole thing. And I'm the guy that beats the drum. Career strategy, strategy, strategy. same. Actually, Paul, I just heard your episode just before this one and I was like, we're on the same page. Keep going. So what's, you know, what is the big myth around uh career strategy in your head that you think needs just destroying, just dismantling? Mm. I think what needs dismantling is that there's not enough opportunity for everyone. That's just not true. em If, I mean, if you want to keep believing that and that is working for you and you're okay with how things are going for you, fine. I'm personally not okay with that for myself. And I'm not, I'm actually not okay with that for anybody. I really want everyone, all artists to be living up to our fullest potential and there are jobs out there right now that you're perfect for, but no one's going to know if you're not taking the time to A, take care of yourself, two, map out a strategy, three, take action on that strategy, reassess and switch gears when you need to. There's so much that is in our control. And so when we're not doing the work that is in our control, we cannot expect. that things are going to come our way. know like things come to my way every day. Sometimes I don't know exactly where that thing came from, but just by being in action and being strategic and being out there in the world, energetically, things come my way. Sometimes they're based on a reach out I've done, but other times they're based out on like a meetup I had with someone years ago, or I don't even know why something came my way. But I do know that the strategic consistent action is always going to make me feel better at the end of the day because I've put it all out there. It's like you actually are in the arena leaving it all on the field. And Brene Brown has some great quote, I think it's from Theodore Roosevelt about like, don't take advice from the people in the stands. That's right. The people who are in the arena, we're the ones, you, you, Paul, me, we're doing the work. So, so lean in. If you're not getting what you want, lean in and learn from the people who are getting the work that you want. Man, when you start talking strategy and systems, ooh, I get all gooey inside. that's one of the things I admire about you because you've clearly you're highly trained actor, and yet you still have this incredibly acute business sense. And you've got both of those under her. You you get both sides of the both hemispheres are firing. um What do you think are the biggest mistakes that actors, specifically voice actors make when they're trying to build a business, when they're trying to monetize their skill set. Mm-hmm. I think one of the biggest things, and I will connect it to audiobook narration, is choosing an area that you want to grow in, even if there's potential opportunity in front of you. So for me, uh like when audiobooks came my way, I also was working with an agent in New York at the time, and I was kind of shuffling going to in-person auditions. with like doing the work in front of me. So it's a fine line and it's being able to figure out how to balance the auditions with the actual opportunity. So I think some people might not be very comfortable with this, but something I do with my clients and I do in my own business is to forecast what I want to make, what the business needs to make or what I want the business to make in a year. And I will plan out the annual revenue I want to see and I'm going to break it down by month. And a lot of folks are like, how can you do that if you don't know? It's like, well, I'm going to base it on what happened in the past. So the first year that you do this, you don't know how it's going to go. You're taking a leap of faith, like we all do in a creative career. But it's worth it to forecast what you'd love to see, forward vision what you'd love to see, and then keep track along the way. And if you said you wanted to make $1,000 from commercial work that month and you made $200. Okay, that's a starting point. Great. It's good to keep growing and learning and being in class, but if the work opportunities are in front of you, do the work. It can feel really uh comfortable to stay in student mode, but there's probably work there for you if you are brave enough to do the reach outs. fantastically put. ah Elise, it's been a pleasure. want to make sure that people can find you, that they can get in touch with you, and I also want to learn about this free class that you got coming up. Yeah, that's great. um So the best ways to connect with me, probably through my free class. So I'll give you the URL for that is going to be audiobookadventure.com slash class. We'll put that in the show notes and description as well so people can easily click on that and get to you. Thank you. And you can also connect with me. I'd love you to check out my podcast, The Global Actor Podcast. And so you can check that out on any platform and then uh on Instagram is a great way to connect as well. So uh I'm uh @theglobalactor or @elisearsenault.actor to connect with my personal work. Yeah, the free class. So the class I'm teaching is called narrate your way to abundance. And in it, I speak more about how audiobook narration might be a fit for your career. So you can start sussing out if this is an area you want to grow in, or if you're someone who's already explored audiobooks, but would like to work more consistently with publishers, or maybe you've worked em in the indie area, but you haven't worked directly with publishers yet. It's a great way for you to just get to know more about how the industry works. And then I teach you three tools that you need to break in to work with publishers. So we'll dive into that. And then I always have open Q &A time at the end. And I stay on as long as all of the questions are answered. So come join me for that. I would love to meet you. And uh it is an introduction to The Great Audiobook Adventure. It's completely free, this intro class. But then if you're curious about the course, you can ask questions then. And we will put the information for that free class as well in the description and show notes. Elise, this has been even better than I thought it was going to be. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your expertise with our audience. And thank you so much. It's been great to have you. Thank you so much, Paul.